Election Coverage | 2026 Oklahoma Governor's Debate | Season 2026 | Episode 4 - PBS

OETA presents a 1-hour debate between the 2026 Oklahoma governor candidates.

OETA presents a 1-hour debate between the 2026 Oklahoma governor candidates.

OETA presents a 1-hour debate between Oklahoma governor candidates: Republican nominee Mike Mazzei and Democratic nominee Cyndi Munson.

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OETA presents a 1-hour debate between Oklahoma governor candidates: Republican nominee Mike Mazzei and Democratic nominee Cyndi Munson.

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Election Coverage is available to stream on pbs.org and the PBS app.

Welcome to the 2026 Oklahoma Governor's debate on OETA.

Here are your moderators, Rich Lenz and Susan Cadot.

Good evening, and welcome to the 2026 governor's debate on OETA.

I'm the vice president of local content for OETA.

I am the news director here at OETA and the anchor of our weekly newscast, the Oklahoma News Report.

It is our honor to bring this debate to you statewide in all 77 counties in Oklahoma.

Rich, we need to let viewers know that we are taping this debate live at 10 a.m.

on October 1st here in our Oklahoma City studio.

We originally publicized that this debate would air live at 7 p.m.

on October 1st, but a presidential visit led to an agreed to change of plans.

We want to assure our audience that this debate is not edited.

It is being recorded and what we call live to tape.

Now let's introduce the candidates, one of whom will be sworn in as Oklahoma's new governor in January, representing the Republican Party, former state Senator Mike Mazzei and the Democrat candidate, House Minority Leader Cyndi Munson.

The rules for tonight's debate are pretty simple.

You'll be given a minute for both an opening and closing statement, and you'll be given 90s to answer each question.

Now, we as moderators, will not engage or interrupt the candidates while they are answering unless they go over that 92nd time limit and we reserve the right to ask follow up questions if required.

Each candidate qualified to participate in tonight's debate by virtue of meeting a fundraising threshold, but we want to let you know that OETA will also air interviews with the independent candidates in this race.

On the Oklahoma News Report, which airs Friday night, October 2nd at 7:00.

And with that, let's begin by virtue of a coin toss.

The first opening statement belongs to Senator Mazzei.

I'm so pleased I get to share with you my plan to make life more affordable and grow great jobs by making Oklahoma no income tax, state, abolishing property taxes for seniors and veterans, cutting the cost of home and car insurance to launch a massive statewide literacy program and get more skilled trade programs going, and to chase the Chinese money and Mexican cartels out of the state.

Noel and I have been married for 36 years.

We started with nothing but school loans by lots of hard work and the matchless grace of God.

We raised five children, started a financial planning company, and I was in the Oklahoma Senate for ten years.

The finance chairman and I was also Oklahoma Secretary of Finance.

Tonight on this stage are two very different candidates with two very different visions for our state.

I was raised in southwest Oklahoma by a single father who served 22 years in the United States Army.

Every morning, putting on his army uniform to serve our country and at night changing to deliver pizzas or work in convenience stores so that my sister and I had everything we needed for the best possible future.

My opponent is a corrupt establishment politician who has used $11 million of his own money to run for governor.

He wants to cut funding to our public schools.

I want to invest in our public schools, raise teacher and support staff, pay.

He wants tax breaks for the wealthy.

I want to protect and expand health care access for all Oklahomans.

I've traveled across all 77 counties talking to everyday Oklahomans, and tonight I'm here to share my plan with you and earn your vote.

Thank you for those opening statements.

The first question is for both of you.

Despite misgivings about its future and maintenance, experts say AI is here to stay.

National leaders claim it is vital that America stay at the forefront of this new technology.

Should Oklahoma play a role in growing or maintaining AI via data centers despite environmental concerns?

America has to win the battle of supremacy for artificial intelligence, and that does require an enormous amount of processing power.

Now, with any new transformative technology, there's always a right way to handle it and a wrong way to handle it.

In my opinion, we need for guardrails for data centers.

One, they shouldn't get any taxpayer funds to.

They should provide for their own electricity.

So electricity rates for the rest of us don't go up.

They should also only be built on locally approved industrial sites.

And then number four, they need to use advanced closed loop cooling systems.

So the water is restrained to what I understand to be similar to the needs of maybe a hotel every night with 2 or 300 rooms.

If local communities approve data centers, I believe those should be the proper guardrails in this new technological era.

First and foremost, as governor, my job is to protect you and to protect your family and make sure that no industry exploits our natural resources or raise costs on everyday working families.

That's why on day one, I will sign an executive order putting a moratorium on any new data center projects.

We need a standardized, uniformed approach on how we deal with big tech.

They want to come to Oklahoma because of our land and because of our loose regulations.

And so, as governor, I will ensure that we don't pay a single dime for any infrastructure or any energy or electricity costs that data centers will place on working families in the legislature.

I have already supported legislation requiring data centers to build their own infrastructure, to pay for their own electricity and utilities, and to make sure that they don't use up our natural resources like our water.

We need a governor who will work alongside local leaders to make sure that we get the best deal for Oklahoma if Big Tech wants to come and do business in Oklahoma.

Oklahomans in Oklahoma, you should benefit the most.

This next question is also for both candidates, and we will begin this time with Cyndi Munson.

Oklahoma is currently spending roughly $12,500 per student on public education, which ranks US 49th out of 51 states, including Washington, D.C.. Is that enough money to get the job done?

And it's simply being poorly spent?

Or if you believe an increase is needed in spending per student.

How much is enough to make a difference?

As a proud product of Lawton Public Schools and in the audience tonight, my sweet nephew who attends public schools in Oklahoma, I know how important and how transformational public education can be for children and our families.

I wouldn't be standing here today if it weren't for my teachers, if it weren't for access to services that I needed as I was growing up, I've traveled all across the state talking to families, talking to teachers about the importance of investing in public education.

We are last because we do not make the proper investments to take care of our teachers.

We've got to increase pay for our teachers and our support staff.

I will make sure I work with the legislature for targeted funding around mental health care access and special education services and teachers.

The reality is this we are not meeting the needs of what it takes to operate a classroom today, and we have nearly 4000 emergency certified teachers in our classrooms teaching all across the state.

We've got to increase the pipeline of teachers who are standing in front of our students who are certified, who go through the traditional education pipeline in order to make sure that our students have the best possible future.

If we want more business and industry to come to the state of Oklahoma, we've got to get out of last in the nation for public education.

And that starts by making critical investments for our public schools.

Mr.. Mazzei, I married a teacher, and she helped us figure out how to handle the education of our five kids.

Some of that included public schools, homeschooling, and private schools.

And that's why I support school choice, because parents know what's best for their kids.

Now, we certainly need to do a better job, particularly with reading outcomes in our schools, because the current system has been dysfunctional and has really let down our hardworking teachers.

That is why I will hire a statewide literacy director in my first week in office to replicate the very successful Mississippi model, which took them from 50th to first in the country in reading outcomes.

The keys for their success are phonics curriculum enough reading coaches statewide, and accountability.

So students are reading by third grade because after third grade they need to read to learn.

Now, here in July, some big differences between Representative Munson and myself.

As you just heard, she wants to pour more and more money into an already dysfunctional system.

She doesn't support school choice, and she voted against the legislative bans for boys to play in girls sports, and against the requirements that boys should not be in girls bathrooms.

I just don't want guys near the girls bathrooms in schools.

Macey, this next question is specifically for you.

Your campaign website says you would prohibit foreign governments and foreign controlled companies from owning Oklahoma land.

Why, then, do you support the location of an aluminum smelter plant in Enola, Oklahoma, by an entity whose majority owner will be Emirates Global Aluminum?

I was not in state government when the aluminum plant project was approved, and Representative Munson voted for Senate Bill 1000, which actually funded the project.

Now, I do get everyone's concerns and questions.

I had to dive into a bunch of information myself.

I became a supporter of the plant for two big reasons the first, massive job creation, 10,000 jobs, $940 million of annual income.

Second, our military needs aluminum for our jets and our warships.

But China controls 60% of the world's production.

America is asking Oklahoma to be at the center of reshoring a critical material, and it's an honor to play a big part in protecting the men and women who fight for our freedoms.

Now, none of that matters if the plant isn't safe.

But we've done extensive research and found that the latest technology has helped the plants in Europe be completely safe.

And I have listened to the local communities.

So we'll also hire third party independent evaluators to make sure the water and air is completely safe for the people, the cattle, the hay and the farms.

And this next question is for leader Munson.

Leader Munson abortion is currently illegal in Oklahoma, even in cases of rape or incest.

Providers can receive up to ten years in prison and or a $100,000 fine.

On your website, you have stated that you oppose this man.

And if the right to reproductive care was reestablished, would you support any limitations and if so, what would they be?

First, I want to respond to the aluminum smelter.

I voted against the $255 million tax giveaway to a foreign corporation, and while my opponent wants to cut taxes and say that he wants to go after teachers, it's clear that he doesn't want to help everyday Oklahomans.

If he was concerned about our taxes, he wouldn't be okay with sending $255 million of your tax dollars to a foreign corporation.

When it comes to what's happening to women across the state of Oklahoma and 52% of our counties, women don't have access to an ob gyn.

Women don't have access to maternity health care.

I have health insurance, and it's even difficult for me to access my ob gyn without being on a long wait list.

That's what this type of legislation, these laws have done to women.

And my opponent, unfortunately, says that he wants to put women and doctors in jail just for accessing health care.

And so I'm supportive, making sure that all Oklahomans, especially women, have access to the health care that they need.

This next question is for both of you.

According to the center for Health Care Quality and Payment Reform, 45 of Oklahoma's 73 rural hospitals are financially vulnerable and 18 facing immediate risk of being closed.

At the same time, state health care agencies face continuous budgetary pressure.

How would you address this crisis to ensure adequate health care in rural parts of Oklahoma?

Well, if you're asking Susan about health care and specifically health outcomes, I agree that health care must be a top priority.

I take health care very personally because many years ago, I was in a car accident and left with a broken back.

It took years and 50 procedures to get better.

Fortunately, thanks to faith and family, I made it all the way through and I'm super strong today.

The first thing we have to address with health care is the waste, fraud, and abuse that's in the current system.

There was an audit done several years ago that discovered $1.6 billion of questionable expenses in sooner care every year, and unfortunately, nothing was ever done about that.

But over in the state of Tennessee, they got to work on those issues, and they saved $1 billion in cash on hand.

Imagine what we could do with $1 billion to help rural hospitals.

More importantly, we must get more doctors in Oklahoma because the best health outcomes occur when there's a good relationship with a direct primary care physician.

That's why I will start a physician recruitment program and make it so that new doctors starting their careers in Oklahoma, won't have to pay income taxes for five years.

That'll get us hundreds and hundreds of more doctors.

What are your thoughts on rural health care?

Well, first, it's devastating to see what's happening across our state.

As I've traveled to every corner of the state of Oklahoma talking to rural hospital administrators, visiting our hospitals, listening to the chaos and the destabilization that continues on when it comes to health care funding.

That's why I have stood up and fought for protecting Medicaid expansion in Oklahoma, to ensure that Oklahomans not only have health insurance, but that our hospitals stay whole, that those services are there for you when you need them the most.

And that also includes long term care facilities for our aging population, especially in rural Oklahoma.

And when we're talking about rural workforce, we have to remember that these hospitals and these facilities are so vital to the economic development and prosperity of our rural communities.

Now, my opponent will tell you that there's waste, fraud and abuse in our health care system.

But he was the finance chair in the Senate.

He was also the secretary of budgetary responsibilities under this current governor.

So if there is waste, fraud and abuse, why didn't he take care of it then?

The reality is this you need a governor who's going to work with our federal delegation and local hospital leaders to make sure that we have the funding that we need to make sure that you have access to the services that you need, no matter where you live in the state of Oklahoma.

This next question is what I like to call the elephant in the room question.

Given the room that we are currently all in with, the legislative session begins next February.

We're hopeful that lawmakers will consider and pass legislation to reauthorize Oeta if that is successful.

Will you support that legislation or attempt to veto it, as the current governor did successfully last spring?

And please explain the reasons for your answer in detail.

Cyndi Munson, thank you, Rich, and thank you to Ohta for hosting us this evening.

I, I love public television and Oeta specifically because I know how vital it is to you at home, not only for programs that you love and appreciate, but also access to news we know, especially in bordering towns across the state of Oklahoma.

You don't have access to local news and Oeta response to that.

Oeta is also important for emergency services and getting alerts out to Oklahomans across our state.

I have always supported extending the sunset for OETA and funding for OETA.

Should I be elected Governor in February, I will work with Democrats and Republicans, as I have always done, to make sure that OETA is held whole.

Oeta has funding to the access that they need in order for us to get the information that we need and of course, the special programs that you love so much.

I even had the opportunity to volunteer during a telethon earlier this spring, and I love so much hearing your stories about your favorite shows.

But more importantly, the service at public television brings for all Oklahomans.

The reason we agreed to the invitation to do this debate on OETA is we really respect the high journalistic standards, and the extraordinary programing makes us believe that OETA and this station can compete very, very well in the marketplace.

I became a budget hawk because when Noel and I started life, it was tough to get ahead with all the taxes we had to pay.

It took us a long time to pay our school loans, get cars that actually didn't break down.

And so when I went into the legislature, I really wanted to respect taxpayer dollars, which is why I fixed the pension systems for teachers and police officers, got rid of $1 billion worth of corporate welfare, and launched the Oklahoma Back to School sales tax holiday and cut taxes in the billions.

All told, we saved $10 billion and I know how to save billions more, which is why we will have an Office of State Finance and Fiscal Responsibility to get to work on these many audit recommendations that I already referred to, and make sure that every state agency puts on my desk financial reports every 90 days so we can uncover additional unnecessary spending.

So at least consider if I could follow up.

You'll least consider reauthorizing the funding for OETA.

We'll have to see what the legislature does.

Well, the follow up question I'd like to ask on that for both of you, which we already had on tap, was what is your opinion overall on sunset laws?

Well, as some people will remember, when I was the finance chairman, I tried to bring a new focus to the state Capitol on really looking at what incentive programs, what state spending programs actually returned for the taxpayers, a net positive economic benefit when our core services focus must be on roads and bridges and schools and paying teachers more and pay and law enforcement officers more and getting more doctors in Oklahoma, we really do have some important budget decisions to make.

And that's why, as Oklahoma's next governor, I'm going to make sure every state agency is run by not just a policy expert, but efficiency experts and fiscal hawks, and will make sure that every chief financial officer of each state agency learns best practices so we can uncover hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of spending that we don't need so we can pay teachers more, pay law enforcement officers more, recruit more doctors to Oklahoma.

One of the frustrations that I know you at home has about our state government is the chaos and instability.

And unfortunately, the Partizan rhetoric that continues to impact state government and that impacts core services to you and to your family.

It also impacts protecting public safety when it comes to these sunset laws.

This last legislative session, I worked alongside my Republican colleagues who knew that and sees that these sunset laws that continue to come up each session can be not only burdensome, but create instability, not just for our agencies, but also for occupational licenses.

It impacts workforce because we allow politics to get into our conversations way too much in our decision making.

And so my perspective on sunset laws is to look at what fits best for our agencies, what fits best for our licensing boards, and not allow politics to seep into these types of decisions.

Because the reality is, is that these services and those occupations that require licenses are for public safety to keep you and your family safe, and to make sure that you know that there is a stable, functioning government that are providing services from education to infrastructure for every single Oklahoma in the state.

This next question is for the both of you and Mr.

The relationship between Oklahoma tribes and the state have suffered over the past eight years.

How will your administration approach tribal sovereignty, state tribal pact negotiations and intergovernmental cooperation to foster economic partnership rather than conflict?

I consider Oklahoma's 39 Native American tribes the crown jewels of Oklahoma, and they provide us an enormous amount of opportunities to pursue job growth, education improvements, health care access that other states wish they had.

I've had the privilege of getting to know, in particular, chief of the Choctaw Nation Gary Batten, who is the epitome of an exceptional leader and daily lives out the Choctaw motto of faith, family and culture.

Now there's a great leader we can work on collaborative partnerships with when it comes to jobs and schools and health care.

Now it is the role of Oklahoma's governor to be a tough but fair negotiator.

And there are some complex issues to address, particularly after the McGirt ruling.

But I believe after years in public service and building a small business over 30 years, it's far better to negotiate than to litigate.

And at the end of the day, we all want the same thing better schools, better roads, higher paying jobs.

It is a disservice to Oklahoma and completely embarrassing what our current governor has done in breaking up the relationships between our tribes and the state of Oklahoma.

Throughout my 11 years in the legislature, I have worked with tribes in this entire campaign.

I have as I've traveled across the state, I've been meeting with tribal leaders, those who lead larger tribes and smaller tribes so that we can build back that partnership with the state of Oklahoma and the tribes.

As governor, I will appoint a secretary of Native American Affairs, and I will work with the legislature to make that position permanent and no longer an option for the governor, so that we never run into the situation again, that we have a senior level advisor working with the governor on state and tribal relations.

We have missed out on opportunities to address education, health care, child care infrastructure in these last eight years because those relationships have been broken down.

I think it's also important to remember that our tribes are sovereign nations.

And as governor, I will respect and protect tribal sovereignty and work together as leaders of those we were elected to represent, and make sure that we come together and work together.

Because at the end of the day, we are all Oklahomans, and it's important that the governor remembers and understands that.

This next question is for both of you.

What can you do, if elected governor to lower homeowners insurance, which is very high?

And what's your opinion on the ongoing lawsuits involving our state's largest insurer, state Forum, brought by a homeowners who thought their claims were unfairly and perhaps illegally denied or underpaid on their settlements?

This is a perfect example of what's going on in our state and industry, coming into our state and exploiting our people.

You know, we have been under one party control for nearly two decades.

Republicans have been in control of the House, the Senate, and also the governor's mansion and statewide elected offices.

And what's happening for Oklahomans is terrible, especially our affordability crisis.

And it's why you need to elect a governor who understands what everyday working people are going through and who will work together with with members in the legislature and our statewide elected officials.

While I may not agree with everything that the Attorney General has done, I am grateful he's going after state insurance company insurance companies that are harming everyday working people.

And as governor, I will work with the Attorney general who will continue that work.

I also will work with the Insurance Commissioner to enforce the laws that I will work with, with the legislature telling insurance companies how they operate in the state of Oklahoma, and no insurance company should increase any, any rates on Oklahomans unless they give us a clear reason as to why they are and capping those insurance percentage rates that are going up on everyday working people.

This is why we need balance in state government.

It's why we need working people, people, someone who understands what everyday working people are going through.

And the reality is this for Oklahomans across the state, home insurance is too high.

And as the next governor of Oklahoma, I will address it.

Mr.. Mazzei, I certainly understand the frustration when insurance companies don't follow through on their responsibilities.

After the car accident many years ago, I had to battle with an insurance company to pay all my medical bills.

Fortunately, the legislature did pass a new law this recent session on giving more oversight to how premiums are changed in this state.

And they, of course, need to fight for insurance purchasers, like all of us, for both cars and houses, to make sure the insurance companies are following through on their responsibilities as to the cost of home and car insurance, I have a plan to replicate the very successful Florida model that has implemented some reforms and saved so much money that insurance costs for home and car insurance have gone down, on average, 14%.

So let's replicate the Florida model and get your home and car insurance costs down 10 to 15%.

This next question kind of stays on the kitchen table.

Issues of practical economical issues for everyday Oklahomans.

Oklahoma's minimum wage is not increased in decades while living costs have skyrocketed.

In today's economy, a person working a minimum wage job would need to work an average of 90 hours per week to afford a market rate.

One bedroom apartment in Oklahoma that's in Oklahoma City, not in rural areas.

The best program we can have to help people afford homes is to create more economic growth and get salaries growing faster than the rate of inflation.

That's why my economic growth plan is so important.

And that's why we have to become a no income tax state.

So we stop losing great high paying jobs.

When an Oklahoma company like Devon Energy decides to go to the no income tax state of Texas, my plan is very workable because it's done on what we call a revenue neutral strategy.

In year one, we can lower your income tax rate from 4.5% to 3% by cleaning out a ton of the $2 billion worth of tax giveaways that are in our tax code.

And that's part one of a three part program.

Second component of my economic growth plan is to get 7500 students off the waiting list of our 29 career tax and get them into skilled trade programs like nursing and welding, and become electricians and plumbers and construction workers are Oklahoma small business owners are hungry to put those people to work and great jobs.

Higher incomes can help people afford a home.

We have a supply and demand issue on top of our affordability crisis.

We are 80,000 units behind for our current population for Oklahomans to access affordable housing.

We have to increase the minimum wage for everyday working people.

Over 50% of working families today, you at home are working more than one job and you get to the end of the month.

And I understand this, trying to stretch every single dollar that you can to pay for rent, to pay for groceries, to put gas in your car, to take care of those high utility bills.

And if we want to bring jobs so close to increase pay for everyday working families, we have to make investments in public education.

We have to make investments in child care, we have to make investments in health care.

And we also have to work to make sure that we have better housing options across the state of Oklahoma.

And as governor, I will do that by working with our tribes, by working with local leaders who are already on the ground all across the state of Oklahoma, addressing our housing crisis.

But you need to have a governor who understands what it's like, what it's like to get to the end of the month and having to stretch those dollars, because that's the real issue that we're facing with our affordability crisis and especially housing access.

And again, we will go back to Representative Munson to begin this.

Oklahoma ranchers say they are being hurt by President Trump's decision to lift tariffs on foreign beef for 90 days to create more supply and perhaps lower prices.

What can you do, as governor to help both our states ranchers, but also all of us consumers are having trouble buying ground beef?

Yeah, I'm grateful to our farmers and ranchers who work hard every single day on behalf of their families, but also on behalf of Oklahomans and quite frankly, Americans.

They are feeding our state and feeding our country.

I've been meeting with farmers and ranchers throughout the state of Oklahoma, and I know what they are facing as as somebody who has gotten up every day to go to work.

While I don't have an agriculture background, I know what it's like to work hard to provide for yourself.

And so I will make sure that I appoint a secretary of agriculture who will work alongside me and alongside our farmers and ranchers so that their voices are always heard and they know, and they can trust that they have a partner in the governor's mansion and do exactly the opposite of what our president has done.

I'll make sure that our Department of Agriculture has the funding that it needs to provide the services that our farmers and ranchers need.

We know that one of the biggest threats to farmers and ranchers across our state are wildfires.

Also disease to livestock, specifically screw worm, making sure that we have a state veterinarian who will follow the science, follow the data, and work with our farmers and ranchers to keep their livestock stock protected.

And I'll work with farmers and ranchers and other local producers to make sure that we can have partnerships within our school districts, our restaurants, our businesses across the state of Oklahoma to use local products and keep it here in Oklahoma for all Oklahomans.

Mazzei, how do we lower those prices but help the Rangers at the same time?

My wife grew up in a farm, and that's why we've always supported Oklahoma farmers and ranchers.

This is one area where I don't actually agree with President Trump, and we don't like the idea of importing beef into the United States.

Our ranchers in Oklahoma produce great product for our grocery stores and help feed Oklahoma and help feed the United States of America.

Now, another way I have worked hard for Oklahoma's farmers and ranchers is spending a lot of time in the last year and a half with our friends in the poultry industry on the eastern side of Oklahoma.

They've had to deal with the uncertainty of losing 25,000 jobs because of a Democrat, 20 year old lawsuit that just needs to go into the dustbin.

And I will focus on that as Oklahoma's next governor.

In addition to that, we already have in Place and Agriculture working group to look at farm, ranch and agriculture issues led in the western part of the state by former state Senator Mike Schultz, a cotton farmer, and on the eastern side of the state, Megan Langley in the poultry industry.

They're giving us great input and we will work very hard on a successful agriculture policy.

Those answers, this next question is going to be for both candidates.

Reports indicate that Ice related arrests in Oklahoma have spiked in 2026.

In a recent news report, Michael Kelsey, executive vice president of the Oklahoma Cattlemen's Association, said raids at legal facilities are having a chilling effect on the beef supply chain.

He, along with Texas in Kansas, cattle organizations, say that legal workers are now scared to come to work with agriculture and cattle plains such a large role in Oklahoma's economy.

What do you think about the uptick in the arrests versus farmers concerns?

When I was in the state Senate, we passed the first of its kind check on illegal immigration, but it was completely overwhelmed by the Democrat Biden invasion of illegal immigrants, which created severe imbalances for our economy, jobs and public resources.

Fortunately, the Trump administration fixed the southern border and basically two days.

And our law enforcement in Oklahoma has worked well with the Department of Homeland Security and Oklahoma's own Marc Wayne Mullen as secretary of Homeland Security to secure our border and, of course, deport criminal, illegal immigrants.

As governor, I will do whatever is necessary to support border security.

Now, unfortunately, the wave of illegal immigrants brought in Islamic extremists that threatened to do violence against Christians, Jews and peace loving Muslims.

Which is why I will designate the Muslim Brotherhood and the Council of American Islamic Relations as foreign terrorist organizations.

I personally like Representative Munson, but she's given significant support to the Council of American Islamic Relations in public statements and community participation events.

And I just think it's troubling that a leader in Oklahoma embraces that organization.

Leader Munson, you know, it's unfortunate that we have someone on stage, my opponent, who wants to continue to lean into extremist politics and rhetoric.

The reality is, as governor, it is important that you listen to local leaders.

In your question, you specifically highlighted a leader of the Cattlemen's Association here in Oklahoma who is elevating his concerns of what's happening to the agriculture workforce in our state.

That's why we need a governor who's going to work and partner with our agriculture leaders.

Just like I mentioned in my previous question, listening to what's happening in the policies that are being impacted in Oklahoma.

Otherwise they wouldn't have spoken up.

And so as governor, my role will be to listen to our local leaders and to respond to what's happening in our state, anyone, regardless of whether they are from the United States or not, documented or undocumented.

If you're breaking the law, you're going to face the consequences.

But if you're getting up every day to go to work, to provide for your family, to provide for your community, to provide, in this case, in agriculture, our state and our country, we need to make sure that we have laws that actually reflect protecting Oklahomans.

And what we see across the state is unacceptable.

And I'll respond and listen to our local leaders not playing a Partizan politics.

Next up, we're going to have two individual questions.

The first will be for Representative Munson.

Before we get to that, I just want to say each of the each of the campaigns have supporters here in the studio.

We ask them to be respectful and quiet during this debate.

And I just want to say you're doing an outstanding job, so keep up the good work.

Leader Munson, a Democrat, has not been elected mayor or governor since Brad Henry 20 years ago.

What makes you believe that you can do something that Joy Hofmeister and Drew Edmondson, good candidates and others have failed to do.

First, as you all know, I represent House district 85, in central Oklahoma City, once represented by former Governor Mary Fallin and Attorney General Mike Hunter, a true Republican stronghold.

And I did what everyone said I couldn't do.

I won that district, and I have been representing Central Oklahoma City for 11 years, and I did so because I go and I talked to everyday Oklahomans.

I don't worry about party registration.

I don't worry about who you voted for for president.

I'm more focused on the issues that we have in common that I can actually address in state government, and I've done that.

I've delivered for my constituents, and I believe that's why they continue to send me back to the state Capitol.

I am running for governor because I believe it's time that we have a leader who understands what everyday working people are going through.

I have traveled all across the state of Oklahoma.

I've been to every corner in all 77 counties talking to you, and what I hear over and over again is that it is unacceptable that we're 50th in the nation for public education, last in health care outcomes, that more and more families are having to work more than two jobs just to make ends meet.

The reality that we live in right now is that one party control does not work.

Republicans have been in full control of the House, the Senate and the governor's mansion, and they took us to the very bottom.

I believe Oklahomans are ready for change.

And quite frankly, it's less about political party.

It's about electing a leader who understands what you are going through.

And I believe I will see victory on November 3rd.

Senator Mazzei, this question is specifically for you, a political question, if you will.

If you are fortunate enough to be elected governor, how would you ensure your supermajority and both houses will remain united to pass your agendas?

Well, Susan, the key to success at the state Capitol, I know having served in the Oklahoma Senate is collaborative relationships, respectful dialog.

Sometimes we call it personality politics and policy.

I do have a pretty good background in policy, which is why I've constructed this plan to make life more affordable and create more jobs.

When it comes to personalities, it takes intentional effort to build on relationships.

I've already had some great conversations with the speaker of the House, Kyle Hilbert, the pro tem of the Senate, Loni Paxton, about some areas of importance that we all want to work on, many of which we've discussed tonight.

And you can't get big stuff done at the Capitol without those collaborative, respectful relationships.

That's how I was able to fix the pension systems for teachers and firefighters and police officers.

That's how I was able to pass big tax cuts.

That's how I was able to get rid of over $1 billion worth of corporate welfare.

And I'll bring that same approach to the Capitol.

So we get stuff done for the people of Oklahoma to make your everyday lives better.

And both of you have touched on this a little bit already.

So I'm going to add a little bit more to the question now, should Oklahoma join states like Florida and Texas in eliminating the state income tax, and if so, how would you propose doing it?

And do either of you support a tax increase of any kind if your elected governor?

Campaigning on cutting taxes is very, very easy.

When I came into the legislature, we faced a $1.5 billion budget deficit after Republican income tax cuts that we know help the wealthiest.

And there were massive cuts to public education, health care, infrastructure programs that were so vital to our working families.

And we are still continuing to try to make up for what's happening.

I don't support any tax increases on working families.

We need to reprioritize our tax dollars to make sure that our tax dollars are going to the places where all Oklahomans benefit the most.

Just in this last legislative session, half $1 billion went to private school vouchers, a Trump dream account, and a sovereign wealth fund that helped the governor's body.

We need to make sure that our tax dollars are going to everyday Oklahomans, and that's what I'm focused on.

I know my opponent's going to continue campaigning on cutting taxes, but know this it's not going to help you, the everyday working person who wants to make sure your child has access to a quality public education for you.

In rural Oklahoma, where you've seen your hospital already close and the jobs that you're looking for, we know that in order to bring better jobs, we have to bring better investments.

And then nearly 400 child care centers that have been cut because of cuts to DHS.

We have to invest in Oklahoma, and that means investing in you.

Mr.. Mazzei, I believe you feel differently.

Representative Munson and I do have very different perspectives on tax policy.

Representative Munson voted for the largest tax increase in Oklahoma history that touched every Oklahoman in the state.

And she's voted against every income tax cut that came before her.

Now, the reason we have to become a no income tax state, as I said earlier, is we're losing out on the potential for salary growth for everyday workers like we've seen in the state of Tennessee, where their economy has gone up 58% more than ours over a ten year period.

And Democrats do typically like to scare everyone that the system is going to crash when we cut taxes or we do tax reform.

But the facts just tell a different story.

Even though the tax rate has gone from 6.75% when I first got into the Senate.

Now down to 4.5%, the tOETAl tax revenues coming into the state have gone up almost two times.

And the other fact is that the no income tax states of Tennessee, Florida, Wyoming, New Hampshire, Texas, they all have better roads, better schools and better job growth.

This next question is also for both of you, Mr.

You will answer first with energy companies like Devon and expand, relocating their headquarters to Houston.

What would you do as governor to promote and gas company growth for those companies who choose to stay?

Well, the oil and gas industry is of paramount importance in the state of Oklahoma, and it's one of the reasons why I killed some of the wasteful green energy programs that were just not a good use of taxpayer money.

And why in the world would we want to subsidize competition against our own and natural gas industry?

One of the things industry leaders have told me is that we've gotten a little heavy handed on some permitting issues and some regulatory issues.

That's making it more lengthy in time to get some of those new drills drilling sites going.

So I will be advocating with the corporation commission to get some of our permitting processes approved in a much more timely process, so it doesn't go on for a year and a half or two years.

It's sometimes only taking 3 to 6 months.

That'll be an important component of keeping our will and gas industry very vibrant and very strong as we help provide energy for Oklahoma and the entire world.

Now that we're in an era of America energy dominance.

And leader Monson, for 11 years, I have been representing not only the founder of Devon Energy, but all and gas and energy executives in my district.

And I will tell you what I hear over and over again as I, as I knock doors and I have led my district, is that we have to make investments in public education and in health care because we know that education, health care are the two things that families are looking for and what businesses are looking for to bring workforce into our state.

It is unfortunate that we lost our very own and gas companies to Texas.

It's because we are not investing in the things that we know matter.

As governor, I will be in all of the above energy approach.

Governor, we have an abundance of energy and all and gas with renewables, with wind and solar.

And instead of pitting our energy sources against each other, we should be working together and finding what the best solutions are for working Oklahomans.

By producing more energy, we can also address the affordability issues around putting gas in your car, the electricity and utility bills that you're paying too much for.

And so it's important to have a governor who understands what it's like to make sure that we have to invest in our families, in our in the things that we know will keep companies here and keep them from leaving us and bring more opportunities in the energy sector to Oklahoma.

We have time for one more question, and I think this might be a good one to end on.

So we'll begin with this to demonstrate an ability to nurture bipartisan relationships.

If you are elected, please name an issue on which you and your opponent might actually agree upon and have common ground.

Well, Rich, I do know that Representative Munson is very passionate about education, and just like her, my wife and I, our family, we wouldn't be where we are today without a great education and lots of hard work.

Now we have some disagreements when it comes to how best to achieve better education outcomes, but that's an area where we could collaborate together because we all want to help our hardworking teachers have more discipline and order in the classroom.

We want to have better curriculum so the kids are reading at grade level.

We all want kids to get really well prepared for life, whether they're going on a career track to a skilled trade, or whether they're going on to a college track.

In my own history in the state Senate, even though we were in the majority, I brought several Democratic colleagues into the Select Committee on Pensions and involve them at length on some of their ideas to rescue the almost bankrupt pension systems.

And the whole process was better off for it.

Well, we've talked about insurance costs, and we all know we're living through it.

Not just home insurance, but also health insurance.

I have a long track record of working with my Republican colleagues across the aisle and building bipartisan coalitions to address issues like health insurance.

I addressed and held accountable insurance companies who wanted to tell Oklahomans that services or prescriptions wouldn't be covered.

Even though you're paying your health insurance premiums every single month.

And I was able to do that because of my relationships with my colleagues on the other side of the aisle.

It's one of the one of my greatest accomplishments in the legislature, because I think it's important that Oklahomans have a leader who will stand up to powerful industries and who will find a way to work together and find common ground, because I know no matter what, regardless of our party affiliation or what we believe in politics, we're all dealing with affordability.

We're all dealing with paying costs that are extremely too high.

And so I have that experience and I will continue to do that as governor.

And I think the time is now that we have a governor who won't use Partizan politics or rhetoric to divide and be divisive and instead bring members of the legislature together so we can actually address our greatest challenges.

I've already done it, and I'll continue to do it.

I hope to continue to do it as your next governor.

We will now give each candidate one minute for a closing statement.

And this time we will begin with Leader Munson.

Well, thank you both so much for having us.

Thank you to all of you for tuning in tonight.

This was a very important moment in this very important race.

I am living, breathing proof of what it looks like to invest in children and in families.

And I believe the time is now that Oklahoma elects a governor who has benefited from those investments, who understands what you at home are going through.

My opponent has shown over and over again, demonstrated tonight that he's in favor of cutting public education, cutting health care.

He's told you over and over again, he's even gone after teacher pensions and our law enforcement officers and firefighters, those who we we rely on and who relied on us to make sure that their retirement and their financial security would be intact.

Now is the time to elect a governor who understands what you're going through, who will protect the programs and services and your financial future for the best opportunities and the best future for our state.

This election is how best to give Oklahoma a brighter future.

I want everyone to have a good job and be able to afford a home.

I want seniors to retire with dignity and keep their home.

I want students to develop great reading and writing skills and launch a good career.

And I want to protect the land of Oklahoma for the people of Oklahoma.

That's why I built a financial plan to make Oklahoma no income tax, state abolish property taxes for seniors and veterans, cut the cost of home and car insurance, launch a massive statewide literacy program, and get more students in skilled trade programs.

When all Oklahomans unite together around a solid plan, we can usher in a golden age of growth, prosperity, and opportunity for our kids and grandkids.

I sure would appreciate your vote on Tuesday, November 3rd.

That concludes our debate, which at this point in time is the only governor's debate scheduled to take place prior to the election on November 3rd.

We want to thank both of the candidates for a great discussion, and we wish them well going forward.

As we mentioned earlier, the independent candidates for governor have also been interviewed, and those interviews will appear on the Oklahoma News report airing Friday, October 2nd at 7 p.m.

For Susan, Caddo and our entire staff that worked so hard to organize tonight's debate and to our audience and to the candidates.

Join Judith, Suzie, and Becks as they race against the clock to stop a killer in their tracks.

Lesley Manville and Tim McMullan return in the final installment of the Susan Ryeland mysteries.